Shivani Phull from Pixelynx on Becoming a Web3 CFO

[00:00:00] Umar: Welcome to The Accountant Quits, brought to you by CryptoWorth, a crypto accounting solution to help you automate your crypto bookkeeping. And Convoy Finance, a crypto accounting firm specializing to provide digital assets bookkeeping and tax support. On this podcast, we discuss how blockchain will impact the accounting profession and how accountants should prepare themselves for the future of work.

[00:00:24] Umar: My name is Umar, your host, and even if some might refer to me as the accountant gone rogue, my job is to provide you with the blockchain knowledge you need that will be relevant for the accounting industry as a whole. 

[00:00:37] Umar: Welcome to Episode 56, the third episode of the Becoming a Web3 CFO series. In this series, I'm delving into the inspiring stories of accounting and finance professionals who transitioned from traditional finance to the exciting world of decentralized finance.

[00:00:55] Umar: Choosing accounting as a career path seems to be losing some of its prestige in recent years. Technologies like AI and blockchain will not take the accountants' job, but rather it's those accountants who have upskilled themselves on blockchain who will. So rather than being seen as a threat, many accountants are evolving with blockchain.

[00:01:16] Umar: And so today I have the pleasure of speaking with Shivani Phull, the VP of Finance and Investments at Pixelynx, an AI music creation platform, who's mission is to shape new revenue streams for artists, fans, and labels of the music industry through decentralized ownership. Shivani is also a CFO Advisor at the Crypto Accounting Group, a crypto accounting and taxation services firm, and a mentor at Outlier Ventures, a web3 VC and accelerator.

[00:01:47] Umar: I find Shivani's story very inspiring and I regard her as one of the most complete accounting and finance professionals. In her 10 years of experience, she worked in commercial and strategic finance, mergers and acquisitions, venture capital, group reporting, external audit, and now crypto accounting. To inspire more accountants to upskill themselves with blockchain, this conversation today will revolve around Shivani sharing her experience, challenges, learnings for transitioning from a web2 CFO to a web3 CFO. Shivani, welcome and thanks for making the time to be here. 

[00:02:25] Shivani: No worries. Thanks so much for having me. Your podcast is one of the first resources I dipped into when I moved into the space. So it's great to be able to be featured on your podcast now. 

[00:02:35] Umar: Wow, Very happy to hear that. Now, Shivani, before we go into how you discovered blockchain, could you take us back to the journey of you becoming a Chartered Accountant? How you decided to pursue an accounting career and study the ICAEW qualification in the UK and also your early years working as an external auditor at the UK National Audit Office.

[00:02:58] Shivani: Yeah, definitely. Look, I'd love to say that there's a, you know, I had a path set out for me, but I really didn't. I was quite confused when I was going to university. I switched many times. I went to university. I did law. I did some internships and it just wasn't for me. So I did what a lot of people did during the years after the recession of 2008 and I found myself in audit.

[00:03:22] Shivani: But it's been great, like I've really enjoyed my path, like I joined the National Audit Office. Um, and when I was there, I audited the United Nations. I got to do some amazing projects. I audited the UN peacekeeping mission in Lebanon, which was on the border of Syria. I got to go to the refugee camps in Jordan.

[00:03:42] Shivani: And, also went to like Vienna and other places. So I got to do an, I got to have an amazing experience. So I'm really, I'm really grateful for that. And after that, I did various roles like out of audit. I did, mostly in group reporting and, budgeting and forecasting. So really, really went on the traditional route, to be honest, after you, after you do accounting.

[00:04:08] Shivani: And it wasn't until I started to go into web3 that I really started to then like switch over. 

[00:04:14] Umar: Okay, so let's speak about your story of going into web3. We are at the start of 2022 and you've now accumulated some experience working in the industry as an accounting professional when you decide to quit your job as a senior finance manager at Reckitt, a FTSE 100 company who for the listeners not familiar is a manufacturer and distributor of personal and healthcare products like Durex, Strepsils, Gaviscon, Airwick.

[00:04:39] Umar: I'm sure these are brands you would have heard of. Can you share your personal journey and experience of falling into the web3 rabbit hole? What was appealing for you in the beginning? 

[00:04:50] Shivani: Yeah, sure. So I think the precursor was really at Reckitt. I transitioned from my group accounting role into a role where I helped them launch their VC arm, which was called Access VC.

[00:05:02] Shivani: And as part of that, they're investing in e commerce and D2C brands. As if they were a startup and they were also launching brands in house as they were a startup. So as part of that, I got to do various things. I got to do like the due diligence side of that. I got to go through like looking at like sourcing and also reviewing like what, you know, investments we'd already made and what.

[00:05:25] Shivani: What was successful, what wasn't successful, what ways Reckitt could help, support them and really help, drive them. So it was a really interesting, experience and that kind of whetted my appetite for like going into the startup world. This was around the end of 2021, so web3 was really, you know, blowing up at that point.

[00:05:46] Shivani: It was all over the news and to be honest, what got me into it was I really started grinding on Discord for whitelist spots. I wanted, you know, to, to find out what it was all about. So I started on Discord. I was one of the first members of BFF and Boss Beauties, and that gave me a really good perspective actually, because.

[00:06:08] Shivani: It helped me to understand, like, that, the mechanic of, like, how the end to end process works in Web3. The challenges of, like, first of all, like, bringing on your, like, user, how to keep them engaged, and how to motivate them through, like, grinding through different levels. Then to the process of, of actually minting an NFT, which has definitely gotten, gotten a lot better now, but was very challenging back then.

[00:06:35] Shivani: And then, you know, being part of projects post, like, what does that mean? Like, how do you keep your users engaged? So that was kind of what really brought me in and then the more that I kind of researched everything about web3, the more excited I got about, I got into it because there's just such an endless opportunity of like what the blockchain is going to do for the world and how it's going to disrupt everything we do. 

[00:06:58] Shivani: And the transparency of it is incredible. And the fact that you have, you know, an open, transparent ledger that everybody can get information from and allows you to digitalize everything and really drive automation to a new level is especially in finances. It's really exciting, but it can impact everything from diamond companies like De Beers, they launched their own private blockchain, to help record the sources of diamonds, which allows them to have more value on secondary, on secondaries to, for example, insurance companies who it takes them years to like, it can take them like months to really get the information about prior claims and all of that.

[00:07:43] Shivani: I mean, with, with this technology, it can be instant. You're going to see so many new forms of products and new, new services that are going to come up and they're going to be a lot more tailored and a lot more specific and more powerful with that kind of rich data that you can get. Some of the other things like that early on, there was some resources that I found really inspiring.

[00:08:06] Shivani: So some of those would be, of course, your podcast, um, which was one of the first things I listened to. And then also Matthew Ball's framework for the metaverse was a really important document and also Outlier Ventures open meta framework that they released was a big part of everything I was reading at that point.

[00:08:30] Umar: So in March of 2022, you joined Pixelynx as their Director of Finance. It's the company you're currently working at. And I mean, since then you've helped them with their Series A raise and I mentioned in the intro, Pixelynx have investors like Animoca Brands, but also others like Niantic Labs, the company behind Pokemon Go.

[00:08:51] Umar: Pixelynx is a visionary company in the music metaverse industry right now, and they're writing a new narrative to reward music creators and their fans. But your role at Pixelynx, Shivani, consists of setting up their whole financial department, processes, reporting, et cetera. For you, what were the initial challenges coming in this role with limited knowledge around crypto accounting?

[00:09:18] Shivani: Yeah, I think that I joined them just after they closed their seed round. So they just closed investment of about $4.5 million from Animoca, Republic, Niantic. So they had some really big VCs on their cap table. There were big expectations. This was the beginning of 2022 when the market was really flying.

[00:09:41] Shivani: So when I came into Pixelynx, they were going into their Series A round, which ended up, as you mentioned, being closed with Animoca Brands as a majority acquisition. I think the biggest challenge was really coming into a company that needed to set up that whole infrastructure, you know, two years on from then.

[00:10:00] Shivani: There's such a huge amount of resources out there and there's all these communities like the Web3 CFO community is a great one where you can easily connect and talk to people and get advice on different areas. But back then it was really hard. Like I didn't really know anybody in the crypto space. And this isn't things like, you know, like you're saying, it's not, it's not things that you do every day in your job.

[00:10:23] Shivani: So it required a lot of learning and a lot of trial and error, to be honest, and working out what was the best solutions for us. Learning all about, you know, how smart contracts work and how the data flows, what all of the accounting treatments should be. And at that point, obviously there wasn't anything written down in any of the standards or any proposed standards either.

[00:10:47] Shivani: So it was really like looking at some of the older standards and trying to apply them and looking for like best practice. So that was a big challenge. 

[00:10:58] Umar: So in the Crypto Accounting Academy we launched last year, one of the big areas of focus is understanding block explorers. So how do you fetch data on chain?

[00:11:09] Umar: And this is something very unique to web3. For you navigating block explorers, what were the initial challenges there? 

[00:11:17] Shivani: I think the initial challenge is really like the completeness of data and being able to extract the data. So, especially for example, for things like royalty reports and like sales revenue reporting, it is really challenging.

[00:11:31] Shivani: You really have to understand them and understand the nuances of those, of the different block explorers. And what's reliable and what isn't reliable and working out what other tools out there that can help you and to ensure you're producing the most accurate results like materially anyway. 

[00:11:50] Umar: Before we continue, we'll take a quick commercial break from our sponsor.

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[00:13:23] Umar: Now, when you were working at Reckitt, you had the opportunity to launch their VC, Access Ventures, who at the time were investing in many consumer brands for women. In April, 2023, you joined Outlier Ventures, like we mentioned as a mentor, a well known VC and web3 accelerator. So at their early stages, the focus for startups would be more on the product roadmap and achieving traction and getting feedback from customers, which makes sense.

[00:13:52] Umar: And maybe a little bit less on setting up a proper finance department. In your experience as a mentor, working with all those web3 founders, how do you actually go about helping them around setting up a proper financial infrastructure? 

[00:14:08] Shivani: Yeah, so when these companies are often, they're pre seed usually, so they're going into their first fundraising round. so really my role for them is really helping them with raising money, to be honest.

[00:14:22] Shivani: So it's looking at helping them with their business models, making sure they're built on like unit economics. And helping them to understand what's the best way to use their funds and how much to raise. Because I think one of the really important things is as you're raising is you really want to make sure you're raising enough money to reach the milestones and KPIs that you need to then go on to your next round.

[00:14:44] Shivani: So it's making sure you've got that in mind and you're really understanding, okay, what is it that you're going to spend your money on? And then making sure you have a cash flow and a P&L, which is going to be able to support that. 

[00:14:57] Shivani: And the other thing is like in this market where raising money is a lot more challenging, is making sure you really have a flexible, cost base. So you're not fixing yourself down to fixed costs. You know, raising is taking longer. So you want to have some levers that you can pull up and down to enable you to pivot. And move like with the business as the business grows, or as you wait for more funding, that's kind of my focus and also helping them with understanding their cap tables.

[00:15:26] Shivani: It's really important early on for a company to make sure they have a really strong cap table because it gets very difficult to fix your cap table. As you go further along in your fundraising process, it has impacts on dilution. So it's making sure they have a clean cap table in the beginning, they understand the different pools that they need.

[00:15:46] Shivani: And the considerations of what they're going to need in the future. And also negotiations with investors, you know, in this market, they have more power. So it's just trying to work out, okay, which ones, you know, are the ones that you have to really focus on and push to, to maintain and which clauses that you, you know, you're happy to leave for now and making sure they're doing it through the right instruments for them at the correct stage that they're at.

[00:16:13] Umar: Now as someone with an audit background, you will agree that financial controls are very important and serve as a bedrock to setting up a proper finance department. Let's say there's a new CFO or financial controller listening to us right now who has just joined a web3 company. What would be some of the best practices you would suggest to implement from the beginning to avoid things getting messy with the accounting and reporting?

[00:16:38] Umar: I remember last year you had shared some good tips around wallet hygiene with the Web3CFO club. 

[00:16:44] Shivani: Yeah, so that's definitely would be number one. I think is, you know, with with any system, you can only automate things if you have a good data set. So I think having good financial policies and good wallet hygiene is really important.

[00:16:58] Shivani: The main reason for that is because that data then flow from the wallet, then flow into your sub ledgers. So that's a really key one. I think the second key one is really about liquidity management for web3 companies. You know, you don't know how the markets are moving, so you really wanna make sure you have a good liquidity policy when you're thinking about how much you are spending in fiat and how much you're spending in crypto, and that you are liquidating, the crypto that you are earning at the relevant points so that you are able to withstand any market ups and down.

[00:17:32] Shivani: I think that would be my second one. The third one I think is, it's more on the OPS side, but I think it's really important to understand like your smart contracts, the security around it. And because that really has an impact on, this is the crypto that is being controlled by the smart contract, like where it is being deposited, the rules around it.

[00:17:55] Shivani: So you really want to make sure there is security around those. And that you're maintaining that as well. Like in the market, things are moving so quickly. Technology's moving so quickly. So using solutions, for example, like Fireblocks, which protects the money in your wallets and Gnosis Safes is really important.

[00:18:14] Shivani: So I think that's something that's high up there. And I think it kind of, it's also part of the realm of cybersecurity, which I think is also just always important as a web2 CFO. The other thing I think, which is important is, you know, as a CFO, it's you can, anyone can crunch numbers at the end of the day, but it's really about the story behind the numbers.

[00:18:38] Shivani: So I think one of the big parts of my job is really trying to understand the story behind the numbers of what's happening every month and making sure that we understand that and that we can then report that to the board so that there can be good decision making. And I think a lot of that information really comes from like KPI reporting and benchmarking.

[00:19:00] Shivani: So making sure you're setting KPIs and if things aren't delivering. And I think one of the key areas is, for example, web3 marketing is such a challenge at the moment, especially with kind of the sentiment in the market, everything's changing and you know, what was delivering good conversion a year ago is now not delivering it anymore.

[00:19:25] Shivani: You've got to really make sure you're like looking at that. And then you're, you're getting the team to then like pivot if you're not, if you're not seeing the conversion that you need so that your resources are being spent in the best way as possible. 

[00:19:37] Umar: Staying on the topic of KPIs, KPIs could vary depending on the fundraising stage and level of commercialization of that company's products.

[00:19:47] Umar: In your experience, I mean, a lot of CFOs have to, CFOs in Web3 have to manage their treasury, both in crypto and fiat. They have to, of course, prepare a forecast, align them to actual spending, which is no different from Web2. What would be some of the key KPIs in web3 that would be important for them to track and monitor?

[00:20:09] Shivani: So I think it really depends on your, like, type of product. I think on, like, for example, for a consumer product, I think like daily active users is really important. I think things like, I think you want to start at the top, so you look at your top of funnel. And then you work down and see, okay, how many people are landing on your website?

[00:20:27] Shivani: And then how many daily active users are you getting? And then converting into like looking at like on chain data. And things like that, I think in terms of on the finance side, like the finance specific KPIs, things like burn rates are really important. In terms of your treasury, I think it's really hard to kind of say what is a good KPI for your treasury because it really depends on your company. 

[00:20:52] Shivani: So for example, for us, we always, we have a set amount that we keep in our treasury and we have a, we have a set policy where depending if we earn over a certain amount, we'll convert a certain percentage straight away into USD to ensure that we're kind of smoothing and like maintaining a good cash position as well.

[00:21:13] Shivani: And that is also, you know, really dependent on like your company and how much you're paying out in USD and how much you're paying out in crypto. So I think those are some like, you know, good, good KPIs. I think looking at things like another key areas, like looking at things like staking, and obviously, you know, with staking, you can earn interest or like staked amounts, which is great, but it also locks up your crypto.

[00:21:38] Shivani: So I think that's something that's also really important is looking at. When you've got your like crypto treasury, like how much is like freely available to be able to use for the business and how much is being like locked up and earning like interest in various ways, similar to kind of what you think about in terms of cash.

[00:21:55] Umar: Moving on to tooling for web3 accounting. I always say you can use web2 tools for crypto, but they do involve quite a bit of work around. That's because they've not been built with crypto in mind. For the new web3 CFO starting, what would you say is the foundational tech stack for them to have for their crypto accounting, operations, finance?

[00:22:15] Shivani: Yeah, I think it's crypto sub ledgers, to be honest, like the Cryptios and the Bitwaves and Tres Finance. I think they're really the foundation of having strong data being pushed into your ERP on the crypto side. But I think that, you know, everything, like I said before, comes down to having good data, you can only have good automation into these sub ledgers if you have clean wallet data.

[00:22:39] Shivani: I think one of the biggest concerns, I think with the sub ledgers is, is the controls around it. You still need to make sure you have completeness and accuracy at every point. So you want to make sure that what's on the block explorer is agreeing to balances within your sub ledger.

[00:22:56] Shivani: And that is also agreeing to what's in your ERP. So I think that's a key part. The other key part I mentioned before was also like, you know, a good security basis for all your wallets. So things like Fireblocksor Gnosis for, for wallets, which are holding high amounts are really important because it allows you to have several people that can log in.

[00:23:17] Shivani: It's not like a, you know, one person has lost their keys or been hit by a bus and then, you know, that's your whole, that's how your whole company's treasury gone and you can have several people log in and. There's fail safes with that. So I think that's a really key part. I think the other key part is, also having really good networks of suppliers around you for, for tax, especially, and because it's so challenging, like the regulatory environment is changing and it's developing very quickly.

[00:23:47] Shivani: And you really want to have a good partner with you that is there to help support you as your business is growing and as it's changing and as the regulations are changing to enable you to comply. 

[00:23:58] Umar: Before we continue, we'll take a quick commercial break from our sponsor. The blockchain industry is still in its nascency and so are the accounting guidelines that govern accounting for crypto.

[00:24:09] Umar: But the accounting equation is universal and accounting principles are timeless. The only difference now is the addition of blockchain technology with the accountants having to understand how to reconcile activities from block explorers on different chains and understand the token flows for each type of crypto activity to account for them in their chart of accounts.

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[00:25:27] Umar: So you mentioned crypto sub ledgers. To all accountants and CFO using a crypto sub ledger for their crypto accounting, they would still need to be using like what we refer to as the main ledger, traditional accounting software, like a NetSuite, a QuickBooks, a Xero.

[00:25:43] Umar: Now, in your experience, when doing crypto accounting, given these softwares do not accommodate for crypto, is there any good practice or tweaking your chart of accounts or yeah, any good practice that you would have to sync that data from the subledger into your traditional accounting software? 

[00:26:04] Shivani: Yeah, it's such a challenge.

[00:26:05] Shivani: I think actually you have to kind of align your chart of accounts. based on your sub ledger. So some of the sub ledgers have specific rules with how their data can flow into those. In terms of just the chart of accounts, I think you do definitely need a crypto chart of accounts. There are some specific accounts that you need on both your balance sheet and your P&L in terms of to make sure you're correctly reporting it.

[00:26:31] Shivani: But often what that means is that, you have your subledger linking to maybe one or two accounts in your ERP and then you have to do some manual journals on top to make sure that all of the rest of the journals or transactions are posted correctly. 

[00:26:50] Umar: Now, moving on to the future of the accounting profession, last year was an eventful year for crypto accounting under US GAAP, with the departure from the cost-less impairment model to a fair value accounting model.

[00:27:02] Umar: We just had Mackenzie Patel from Hashbasis on Episode 55, if you want to learn more about how to prepare for that transition. Besides your role at Pixelynx, Shivani, you're also a CFO Advisor at Crypto Accounting Group, a crypto accounting and tax services firm. And in 2023, you submitted a comment letter to the FASB on those proposed fair value changes.

[00:27:25] Umar: I was reading some data published by the Wall Street Journal in 2022. They published an article reporting that more than 300,000 US accountants and auditors have left their jobs in the past two years, representing a 17 percent decline. That's quite staggering and quite concerning, I believe, as accounting seems to be losing its prestige as a career path.

[00:27:50] Umar: Shivani, I see you that you embody a new breed for the modern accountant. You have an insatiable level of curiosity for new technologies like blockchain and AI. To all the accountants listening to us, who studied for many years to obtain their accounting qualification, but maybe are a little bit unhappy with their job, what advice would you have for them?

[00:28:12] Shivani: Yeah I think it's a really interesting statistic to be honest. And I think it's because if you look at general finance jobs, if you're unable to provide those value added skills on the understanding of like the special project side in terms of investments, business modeling, and also on the FP&A side in terms of forecasting and budgeting and be able to challenge business, business accountant heads or business owners like on their spend and how to really drive efficiencies throughout the business.

[00:28:45] Shivani: I think you really struggle to make the transition into those higher paid jobs. I think you're capped at a certain amount and I definitely see this as a difference between like Europe and the US for example, so I think in Europe, the focus of a lot of finance roles is definitely a little bit more technical and a little bit more focused on like the bread and butter of what a traditional accountant is. 

[00:29:08] Shivani: Whereas in the US if you really want to be getting into those higher paid jobs, you really need to be giving those value adds and I think that's where, you know. I think it all comes down to being able to understand holistically, like what you're doing in finance and everything kind of comes back to the numbers. It's understanding the story behind the numbers.

[00:29:28] Shivani: It's being able to support the board with all their decision making through their different processes, M&A, whether it's restructuring, whether it's pivoting. So there's so many different facets that I think you have to do. And you have to be as an accountant in the modern age, you almost have to be what it's called like a polymath now.

[00:29:47] Shivani: And I don't think they really teach you those skills in. In like, for example, your training contracts, it's really, as you progress later on that you, you need to develop those skills specifically. 

[00:30:00] Umar: So a lot of accountants are leaving the accounting profession, but in the web3 industry, there is a shortage of accountants with good crypto knowledge to work at web3 startups.

[00:30:11] Umar: Let's say Shivani, if you had to recruit, like, someone to come and help you out, a senior accountant, what would be some of the emerging, like, skills, knowledge, you would expect that accountant to have? Would you already expect them to know crypto or just to be curious about crypto? 

[00:30:27] Shivani: Yeah, I think a lot of things can be taught.

[00:30:30] Shivani: So, whenever I recruit people, I really look for people who give you who have like a lot of motivation and are really curious. So what you want really is someone who's going to be really curious and wanting to understand the developments in the markets, like what's happening in the markets, what's happening in the crypto regulatory space, who is part of all of the communities and the different things that are going on so that they can stay abreast of like what's happening. 

[00:30:57] Shivani: I think that's a really important one. I think the second important skill would be having a really strong base of understanding like accounting and operations as well. They would be the two things. I think on the crypto side you can definitely teach someone like how, for example, blockchain works, like about the sub ledgers, about all of those things.

[00:31:21] Shivani: But I think, yeah, the number one thing would be being curious about what is happening in the crypto and web3 space. 

[00:31:27] Umar: All right. We are soon coming to the end of the episode. There's a last question I want to ask you on how do you take time off? So a little bit less related to being a web3 CFO. The web3 industry is fast paced and you always plugged in 24/7.

[00:31:44] Umar: A lot of people I speak to, they share the same feeling that oftentimes their workdays feel never ending. There's always something new to learn, in web3. So working overtime is no longer a once in a while thing, it's pretty routine, you feel a bit burned out. And I mean, I experienced this a little bit last year, and I know now that taking time, not taking time off rather is not sustainable.

[00:32:08] Umar: I want to ask you, are you disciplined about taking time off? And what do you actually do on your off days not related to web 3. 

[00:32:15] Shivani: Yeah, no, I think it's a really good question, actually. I think, you know, the world of web3 never sleeps, so I think it's, yeah, it's an important one. You know, Jeff Bezos said you can only make three good decisions a day.

[00:32:28] Shivani: So, for me, that's like a really important thing. Like, I try really to not multitask, but I try to focus on three different things in a day. And that really helps. I think in terms of like my everyday, I try to go for walks every day. And when I can, I'll take time off and try to just have blackout days where I'm not doing anything to help me unwind.

[00:32:50] Shivani: And then I always come back fresh and like more motivated. So yeah, taking breaks is really important. And I think also just having a healthy lifestyle is important too. One of the things I think my first manager said to me, when I, when I was in audit was that, you know, no, one's going to die over audit.

[00:33:08] Shivani: They're like, he's like, don't worry, take the evening off. And it's true. I mean, it's the same for everything. Like nothing that we're doing is life or death situation. So, you know, there's always time to take off and there's always a new day. There's always time to start a new day, like more motivated and with a fresh perspective.

[00:33:24] Umar: Since you listened to to this podcast before, you will know the last question that I like asking to my guests, which is, do you have a favorite quote or a maxim that you live by? 

[00:33:33] Shivani: Yeah, I, you know what, that one's a really hard one. I don't have a favorite quote that, you know, I live by, but I think the main thing, the main ethos that I try to do is just.

[00:33:43] Shivani: I try to stay positive. You know, there's so much, there's so many things that happen every day. And if you've been in the web3 world, like when I started in web3, the market was at the top, but it's, and it now it's, it's been through so many like circulations of ups and downs. So I think it's really, yeah, it's just staying positive every day.

[00:34:02] Shivani: You wake up every day. It's a new day. There's, there's a new, you know, there's a new perspective on like what you can achieve. 

[00:34:09] Umar: Perfect. Well, thanks a lot for coming in today, Shivani. I also want to say thank you for your support for the Crypto Accounting Academy. So our listeners probably won't know this, but on the last day of the course, we have a bonus session where we invite web3 CFOs to share the experience, challenges, a little bit like how Shivani told us today.

[00:34:30] Umar: And Shivani was one of those CFOs joining us. So thanks a lot for that. Thanks a lot for being an active contributor in the Web3 CFO club. I mean, without members like yourself, participating and sharing the experience, it wouldn't be an active community. And yeah, I look forward to meeting you one day in person.

[00:34:49] Umar: Maybe that's going to be this year. 

[00:34:51] Shivani: Thanks so much, Umar. It's great to be able to be invited onto your podcast. And yeah, I look forward to meeting you in real life. 

[00:34:57] Umar: If people want to reach out to you, Shivani, where should they do so? On social media, let's 

[00:35:02] Shivani: say? Yeah, if they want to reach out to me, happy for them to message me on LinkedIn or through the Web3 CFO group.

[00:35:10] Umar: Perfect, and last question, are you recruiting right now at Pixelynx if there's any accountants listening who would want to join you? 

[00:35:16] Shivani: No, we're not at the moment, but I would say there's a, you know, there's a lot of recruitment by other companies like I think Chainlink and Circle group at the moment. So lots of opportunities there.

[00:35:27] Shivani: And I think, you know, with the rumors of I think Circle being going for an IPO next year and Ripple, I think there's some exciting times to come with lots of job opportunities. 

[00:35:37] Umar: Perfect. Well, thanks for sharing and. I hope the listeners will find what they're looking for. No, definitely. 

[00:35:44] Shivani: Thank you. 

[00:35:44] Umar: I would like to thank everyone for listening to this episode. You will find all the links of the episode, show notes, and transcript on the website of The Accountant Quits at theaccountantquits.com. Please note that this content is for general information purposes only and is not a substitute for consultation with professional advisors.

[00:36:05] Umar: If you do know anyone who could benefit from the episode and you care about them, please do share the episode with them. All the episodes are available on Spotify, Apple Podcasts and Google Podcasts, and by leaving us a review and rating, you will support the channel and all your fellow accountants. In order to be notified each time we release a new episode, do follow us on Instagram and LinkedIn.

[00:36:28] Umar: We hope to have you with us next time. Bye for now.