Jacob Kobler from Consola Finance on Crypto Bookkeeping

[00:00:00] Umar: Welcome to The Accountant Quits, brought to you by the Web3CFO Club, a community by Request Finance. With a curated community of web3 CFOs from companies like Aave, The Sandbox, Binance, Consensys, Ledger, and many more, joining this club will allow you to network and learn best practices on web3 financial operations.

[00:00:24] Umar: On The Accountant Quits Podcast, we discuss how blockchain will impact the accounting profession and how accountants should prepare themselves for the future of work. My name is Umar, your host, and even if some might refer to me as the accountant gone rogue, my job is to provide you with the blockchain knowledge that you need that will be relevant for the accounting industry as a whole.

[00:00:48] Umar: Welcome to Episode 40. If you are contemplating to run your business on crypto rails, the framework for your bookkeeping is a combination of traditional and crypto native accounting softwares. Like any traditional business, you will need a traditional ERP solution software like QuickBooks, Xero, Oracle NetSuite being used as your main ledger, and a specialized crypto accounting software to be used as a sub-ledger, which would extract, process and feed in transactions from the blockchain into your main ledger.

[00:01:22] Umar: If you’re looking to scale your business using crypto, you need to start automating your crypto bookkeeping Today I have the pleasure to speak with Jacob Kobler, the CEO, and founder of Consola Finance. Consola finance allows you to convert the blockchain transactions from wallets, exchanges, and custodians into your accounting software to facilitate your reporting, audits and tax filings.

[00:01:47] Umar: In this episode, you will learn the problems with web3 bookkeeping today, the need for a specialized accounting software as your sub-ledger, how Consola’s platform facilitates reporting crypto transactions. Tracking cost basis and calculating, realized and unrealized gains, isolating staking income, and much more.

[00:02:10] Umar: Jacob, welcome the show. I’m glad we finally made some time to speak.

[00:02:15] Jacob: Hi Umar, very glad to join. Thanks for the invite.

[00:02:18] Umar: So to start, could you tell us and share with our audience a little bit more about your background, how you became interested with blockchain, and a little bit of the story that led up to founding Consola.

[00:02:32] Jacob: Yeah, very happy to do that. So, I mean, I have a background in business, so I studied business and administration with a focus also on finance in Vienna and in Italy, so on Bocconi and Vienna, and then directly moved to management consulting, spending two years in BostonConsulting group that always had a passion for crypto.

[00:02:52] Jacob: So as a private investor in crypto since I think the first Bitcoin, kind of bought in 2013 already, but then lost it all again, , and then, I’m get the chance to join Bitpanda, so Bitpanda is one of Europe’s largest, centralized exchanges and I was leading the digital assets / crypto product management department.

[00:03:13] Jacob: So we were listing new assets, integrating new blockchains, and also working on different infrastructure topics. But also during this time, I had the chance to work with the crypto accounting department, so the finance and accounting department in Bitpanda. And as any accounting departments, books need to be closed every year.

[00:03:34] Jacob: And here we discovered also the need for proper bookkeeping and accounting processes that translates the data from the blockchain into transactions that then go into traditional bookkeeping software ranging from the blockchain fees and need to be correctly accounted for, realized and profit losses.

[00:03:56] Jacob: And during this time, then yeah, we always manage to do it properly, but for sure, we researched several solutions on the market. So we were wanted to answer the question, how can we automate this? And we screened the market, we test a lot of solution, but also found that there’s some gaps in terms of what we need.

[00:04:16] Jacob: And also during this time, I was like with a friend of mine talking a lot about crypto bookkeeping accounting, he had already a Web3 startup. It was a decentralized sports betting platform. He was running also these kind of CFO tasks in the company, and they had a token sale, they paid salaries with crypto. They had smart contracts, which like generated a lot of onchain transactions and he felt the pain point also.

[00:04:41] Jacob: So we teamed up and started Consola Finance in August last year, so I think seven months ago, and now working fully to solve the problem of proper crypto bookkeeping.

[00:04:53] Umar: Before we dive into Consola, could you tell us a bit about the common bottlenecks, companies who have invested in crypto face when they have to track and report all these transactions into their traditional accounting software?

[00:05:10] Jacob: Yeah, for sure. Yeah, I think overall, proper crypto bookkeeping requires high degree of attention to detail, deep understanding of all principles around crypto, bookkeeping, and also like crypto transactions are unique based on how they’re structured and what we see right now with the companies we work with that a lot of the tasks are fully done manually, so data is getting downloaded from solutions like Etherscan, Solanascan moved into spreadsheet software, and then calculations are done in the spreadsheet software, and the export is generated and is then uploaded to a bookkeeping software. So this process is time consuming, it’s error prone, and often also the data is not correct.

[00:05:55] Jacob: So this is like for sure one big issue. But then also the overall, I would say lack of guidance. So very often there’s like not a clear set of rules by regulators how to account and how to bookkeep cryptocurrency correctly. So what chart of accounts should be used? And overall all these transactions are, I would say complex.

[00:06:17] Jacob: So it’s counted, it’s getting even more complex, the more wallets you have. And it’s difficult to track and challenging, very challenging to calculate gains and losses for tax purposes. That is a third point for sure, like cryptos volatile. So the underlying token prices change, which have an additional complication for reporting, gains and losses.

[00:06:41] Jacob: And there can be significant like difference between what you report at different times. And maybe the most important or most challenging part is, or the lack of integration. So we have a proper suite of traditional accounting softwares, but there’s no built in support for tracking cryptocurrency transaction, which make it even more important that solution like Consola are needed. So I think we’ll discuss about Consola in some minutes, but there’s a clear lack of solutions that translate the data that is on chain into the current traditional bookkeeping software solutions.

[00:07:20] Umar: I started the episode by saying that companies need to use a combination of both traditional ERP and software and a specialized accounting software instead of Excel spreadsheets.

[00:07:31] Umar: Of course, it would depend on the size of the company as well and the number of transactions they have. But for the Web3 founder and CFO out there, could you walk us through from a high level perspective on the kind of back office set up that they need to be thinking about that would facilitate their bookkeeping, because we’re looking at different avenues.

[00:07:54] Umar: We’re looking at crypto custody, we’re looking at payroll, payments, accounting, reporting. There’s a lot to think about when it comes to running a business on crypto.

[00:08:07] Jacob: Yeah, so for sure, I mean, companies have established like traditional ERP accounting solutions in place, and what’s very important, if you start using crypto in a like business environment, you need to understand how you account for the ledger of crypto.

[00:08:24] Jacob: So what I want to say with this is it’s important that you use a combination of like traditional ERPs as a main ledger and then a crypto accounting software as a subledger. This is like an approach to be able to properly calculate taxes for your separated funds. And in this approach, like a traditional ERP, like QuickBooks, Xero or SAP, if you refer to German market is used as somehow the primary accounting system responsible maintaining the general ledger financial statements.

[00:08:59] Jacob: And the accounting, the crypto accounting software, on the other hand, is used to track cryptocurrency transactions, manage all your digital wallets, and calculate gains/losses for this separate set of transactions. And yeah, I think by using a subledger for crypto transactions, businesses, organizations can ensure that the accounting records are accurate, compliant with current regulations.

[00:09:24] Jacob: So something changes, only a subset of the data within this system is affected and with a clear separation of like traditional bank transaction or fiat transactions and crypto, you can Yeah, with a clear separation. You can, comply also to current laws, and I think it’s important to choose a reliable and secure crypto accounting solution like Consola Finance, as well as clear decision how you wanna integrate them.

[00:09:54] Jacob: So also different layers, do you wanna already upload your chart of accounts in the crypto accounting solution, or you wanna only export raw data and then apply the matching in the traditional accounting software? So these are decisions that need to be made. You need a proper team within your company who understands the processes and then actively decides on the level of integration that is needed.

[00:10:18] Jacob: But as with all solutions, you also need to find a solution that can handle the direct integration, and it’s a decision that’s quite important for companies.

[00:10:30] Umar: We mentioned the problems when it comes to tracking and extracting on chain data. So Consola inance, you guys have been working in the past months and you’ve recently launched.

[00:10:40] Umar: Could you speak a bit about the product so far and how it facilitates converting that on chain data into traditional accounting records?

[00:10:51] Jacob: Yeaho, and in Consola finance we are on a mission to bring clarity and control to companies, crypto finances, and we streamline solution. Our solution streamlines process like bookkeeping, accounting, reporting, and we can save with this like time, reduce the risk of human errors and provide full transparency.

[00:11:12] Jacob: And current pain point we solve with the first product version. So we released the first product version, four weeks ago, and the main pain point we solve right now is how you get the on chain data into like, you know, automated process into one general ledger, tag those transactions automatically and then move it to proper dashboards, exporting reports or bookkeeping, software. And we built here an infrastructure that focuses also on having highest data reliability for the on chain data. So we’re connected to multiple sources here, have an algo that screens always the data sources, combines them to have highest data reliability.

[00:11:56] Jacob: So this is one of our USPs here, and yeah, so when the data is in our general ledger, we then equip companies with the tools that they then need for proper bookkeeping reporting, which is, we don’t tell users or companies, or like exist in one specific country, this is your final tax report for your jurisdiction.

[00:12:19] Jacob: What we do is we equip them with the tools to do the calculations they wanna do. So for instance, for doing the fiat valuation, right now we have like four currencies, Euro, US, dollar, pounds, and Singaporean dollar. So the user can choose how to value it. Do I wanna have the market value? So the price point of the, when the transaction happened.

[00:12:41] Jacob: Or do I wanna use a lower cost valuation? Meaning like if I wanna go for impairment and also always need to take the lowest value, I can use that for the cost based calculation. We also equip the user with deciding, do I wanna do the LIFO, FIFO, average pricing. So for instance, in Austria, there are a lot of tax solutions that already prepare the final tax report, but we give you the option to choose from this.

[00:13:09] Jacob: And then the product for sure also lets you upload your chart of accounts and then set categorization rules. So, for example, if the transaction goes from one wallet to another wallet, it should get always a specific tag account. Account tag. and yeah. What else? We also differentiate to competitors with well-designed dashboards.

[00:13:32] Jacob: We have a focus on UI here and you can, for instance, track all your crypto transaction with realtime cash flow statements, all this data that is also available by an API and connect directly to the bookkeeping software here. Also need to say that we’re seven months in and there’s for sure a lot on the product roadmap.

[00:13:53] Jacob: And we plan to integrate in the, for sure the traditional bookkeeping software solutions like QuickBooks, Xero for smaller companies, but on also our roadmap. We work together, for instance, also with an Austrian NFT platform. They for instance, use an Austrian solution. So also this is on our roadmap. So more and more integrations will come, but we don’t wanna stop here. So the accounting and and bookkeeping layer we see as a starting point. This is the most important topic to solve, but we also wanna integrate different vertical solutions, meaning payments and invoicing. Also for invoicing, a very good partner will be Request Finance, which provides a super good solution for invoicing.

[00:14:33] Jacob: I think the best on the market and what we also will offer is you can add upcoming payments to our tools. The payments you will expect or that will go out and execute directly on our platform in order to come to define the solution, which is like the end-to-end solution for managing, spending, tracking, and reporting crypto finances.

[00:14:54] Jacob: And I think here we also see a little bit differentiation point because users always have to switch between a lot of platforms and we are unifying these operations and provide higher value and lower cost for the user here.

[00:15:09] Umar: That was one of my follow up questions about the fact that they are, I’m seeing a lot of emerging specialized crypto accounting softwares like the Cryptoworth, Cryptio, Bitwave, Integral, Tres Finance, the list goes on. I’ve probably missed a few, and I wanted to ask you how does Consola differentiate itself today in this very competitive market. And I know you guys have just launched.

[00:15:34] Jacob: Yeah, I think, I mean, on the one hand, like if there’s like no competition, then everybody asks is there a market for that? If there’s a lot of competition, people ask how, how you differentiate?

[00:15:44] Jacob: But we get the question asked a lot. But I think overall it’s a good sign that there’s a lot of competition. It grows the industry as a whole, and overall, I think even though we’re competitors, everybody has the same goal and we go towards the market with better transparency infrastructure that helps everyone.

[00:16:03] Jacob: So I think it’s all good that we see between like five to 10 players, but we differentiate with focus on really high data reliability on for the on chain data. So we built here a completely new infrastructure that combines different data sources and we are not connected maybe to only one node provider, which I know from some competitors. Then we also focus on a really clean and nice user interface. So if you compare our solution to maybe some names you mentioned, I think you will see the difference. And we do a combination of dashboarding and reporting. So our data translates also in dashboards, which is especially used for like smaller companies who use the tool not only for getting data in into bookkeeping software, but also who come back to the tool on a regular basis, track flows with a dashboard. And then this dashboard can also be shared. Yeah, and I mean, last but not least, we’re in the DACH region. So maybe you can hear I’m German native and I think for sure here we are also have a differentiation.

[00:17:09] Jacob: There is a lot of interesting companies in Switzerland. We are closer to the market. We speak the language. So I think overall we have a common goal, but there’s slightly difference that sets us apart and I’m happy for everyone to be successful in the market.

[00:17:25] Umar: Before we continue, we’ll take a quick commercial break from our sponsor.

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[00:19:07] Umar: Could you provide us with a walkthrough today how for users to onboard Consola and maybe what is also the minimum volume of monthly crypto transactions that you would be expecting that business to have.

[00:19:21] Umar: I think maybe it would not make sense for a very small company to use a very specialized accounting tool.

[00:19:28] Jacob: Yeah. So right now our onboarding process, involves also like one of the Consola team who supports fully for free. So the onboarding process is generally easy, so depending on what data you want to integrate, if it’s on chain data, you just need to connect via copying the public wallet Id.

[00:19:48] Jacob: Then we already can fetch the data. If you have, transactions on, several exchanges, you have to provide the API keys. But overall, we start with a onboarding session. So one of our bookkeeper supports and also if needed, is also helping with setting up the chart of accounts, the rules. So very often users have an existing spreadsheet.

[00:20:12] Jacob: So there’s, for instance, one company, 10000 transactions in a Google sheet. We help to transform this into the Console Finance Engine, and then the user can already work with the tool, him or herself. So it’s fully self managed and how the process model looks. You can create an account and get a set of free transactions and only if you need more.

[00:20:36] Jacob: So I think the limit right now, we set to 1000. So only if you have a larger demand then you need to upgrade and you can go into the pro version. But right now we also wanna grow in providing solution to as many users as possible. And so this was the question on onboarding. There was a second question, if I remember correctly.

[00:20:55] Umar: The second question, but as you’ve answered, was about the minimum monthly volume of transactions that you would expect a business in order to start using Consola.

[00:21:06] Jacob: Yeah, for sure. I mean, it would not make sense for a small company that has like five transaction per month to use an automated solution.

[00:21:13] Jacob: This, we don’t recommend to do this, but on average, as soon as you see like there are different sources involved, different wallets, different multisig walletsl, it already makes sense. So maybe it’s not purely about the number of transactions, but more like the complexity of your setup. And we have some companies that have a lot of transactions, so our tool is also built for handling large amounts.

[00:21:37] Jacob: We have like some companies that do per month, like more than 100,000 transaction, 100 K, but then others have run a small amount but spread to different sub wallets within in their DAO, for instance. And also here, it already makes sense also when the number of transaction not high, just to have a consolidated view with our dashboards about what’s going on on all their wallets.

[00:22:00] Umar: I want to speak a bit about impairment and tracking cost basis for impairment, crypto assets are recognized as intangible assets and they have to be tested for impairment. That means, yeah, on your balance sheet, they have to be recognized at cost and not at its current market price. I will later in the follow up question, speak a little bit more about the new fair value measurement prescribed by the FASB

[00:22:27] Umar: But first, could you walk us through of how an accountant or CFO would have to the process on how impairment would work at the time that they have to prepare their balance sheet?

[00:22:40] Jacob: We offer the user the tools to do different kind of calculations so he can choose to value the asset with like market value or he chooses like to use a lower of costs on valuation and we equip with the tools, but we don’t do the final report that suggests how to value it based on different jurisdiction.

[00:23:04] Umar: So in October of last year, the Financial Accounting Standards Board, the FASB responsible for establishing USGAAP rules, they issued the guidance to measure crypto assets at fair value and recognize the gains and losses in the other comprehensive income. This had been a controversial topic because before companies who wish to recognize crypto on their balance sheet, they had to account them at cost.

[00:23:31] Umar: So I know in different jurisdictions these rules apply differently, but what I want to ask you is crypto accounting softwares must accommodate for providing the correct valuation of the crypto at the balance sheet date. So the current actual market price, and I want to ask whether Consola would help companies who wish to maybe use this fair valuation approach to value their crypto assets at their balance sheet date under USGAAP, let’s say.

[00:24:04] Jacob: Yeah, so very good question. As mentioned so, there will always be different changes in regulation. We see this not only in US, but also in Austria can give you an example on this also later. And I think it’s very important that you have a tool that is able to also be as flexible as the regulation needs.

[00:24:23] Jacob: So if there’s a change coming up, you should not be like, needed to change a lot in your software. So we already have the tools now that lets the user choose the different calculation logic. So for instance, if you would wanna evaluate with like fair value, you can do that. But if you then choose, you need a report with another logic, you can also do that.

[00:24:47] Jacob: It’s important to mention that we’re live since one month, so for sure there’s also like a lot on the roadmap. But yeah, I hope that answers the question.

[00:24:57] Umar: I want to speak a bit about tracking staking rewards on blockchains, operating on a proof of stake consensus mechanism. So with the long awaited Ethereum merge, now businesses can start to generate revenue on their staked Eth.

[00:25:09] Umar: The tricky part is how to account for the staking income when the original staked amount and the income is delivered in a single line item, meaning the accrual are often not reflected on the blockchain and at unstaking they are delivered, or you would see them as one whole transaction. But for bookkeeping purposes, you need to isolate staking income and then split the transaction between the original stated Eth amount.

[00:25:41] Umar: I wanna ask you if Consola helps users to account separately for the staking income.

[00:25:48] Jacob: That was a very good question. So the answer is yes. Also, with Consola, you are able to properly track your staking income. I think it’s also very important to understand that with terms of staking, there’s also like big differences in terms of legislation where you are.

[00:26:03] Jacob: So I think in, yeah, I know in USA, it’s like staking rewards are treated as ordinary income. So as you said, staking rewards would be treated as ordinary income and subject to federal income tax, but in the normal, not in Austria, for instance. Oh, so I’m from Austria, therefore I make reference to it in Austria.

[00:26:26] Jacob: In Austria, you don’t pay any taxes on the staking income. Only when you sell or you spend the assets, then it isn’t taxable event. But what we do or what we try to do in Consola, we overall split the staking transaction and reward, and also track the cost basis of the staked cryptocurrency in order to accurately calculate the amount of taxable income and capital gains or losses.

[00:26:56] Jacob: And with,yeah, I think with, properly looking into the metadata of the transaction, you can also understand what was the initial staked amount and the rewards of that transaction. So it is technically possible to split that. And this is also the solution, how we do it. Yeah.

[00:27:16] Umar: Next, I want to touch on the challenges that you see for adoption.

[00:27:21] Umar: So today, what would be some of the biggest challenges that Consola is facing for adoption?

[00:27:29] Jacob: Yeah, I think, I mean, overall, like there’s always a lot of challenges. First of all, I would still mention, regulation is a challenge, even though like Consola is not holding any funds from users, the regulatory environment is indirectly impacting us.

[00:27:47] Jacob: So the more constraints are on the market to that hinder companies to fully engage in crypto, to use the potential explore, the less people will need counting solutions. So regulation of the overall environment for sure is a challenge. I think also still education is a challenge. I’m very surprised sometimes how many companies fully operate on chain and did not even know about automated or like accounting solutions at all.

[00:28:16] Jacob: So I think also educating the market about The offerings of accounting crypto accounting solution is important. And last but not least for sure, from a technical perspective, scalability, so the more we grow, the more users we onboard, the more data we have to manage, so also from a technical perspective, made us a challenge to also provide the highest level of performance and quality.

[00:28:44] Jacob: So, yeah to summarize, I think regulation, education, and scalability I would mention as the main challenges for us right now.

[00:28:53] Umar: And what would be some of the upcoming new features and milestones that you have planned for this year for Consola?

[00:29:02] Jacob: So on our roadmap is for sure always integrating new blockchains.

[00:29:06] Jacob: So right now we are live on Ethereum, Solana, Polygon, Tezos, but there’s like new demands from users, then integrating more exchanges, custody provider, think there’s like a endless list of what you can integrate. But then on the other side, we add new features in terms of accounting. So we also improve the details of the unrealized profit loss calculation, realized profit loss calculation, we add more bookkeeping software that we directly connect to.

[00:29:39] Jacob: So this is on the improvement of current features, but then also we add the payments modules so you can add upcoming payments and execute directly on Consola with Metamask or Gnosis Safe. Then we explore also the Defi function, adding Defi options to our solution. And yeah, I would say this is on the roadmap. And then from a overall perspective, we are growing, our number of users improve engagement, and I think the classical topics that are early companies is fighting with.

[00:30:13] Umar: Jacob, we’re coming to the end of the episode. Has there been anything else that maybe we didn’t touch on that you would like to tell the listeners today?

[00:30:22] Jacob: Every listener that he tries Consola, so you can create a free account on app.consola.finance. We are happy to receive feedback and I think you can, yeah, you can always also reach out directly to me.

[00:30:35] Jacob: So my email address is jacob.kobler@consolafinance. Happy to book a demo call with you and we would like to learn what the features you need. And yeah, happy to schedule a session and get to know you.

[00:30:50] Umar: There’s a last question that of course I like to ask to my guests. I think the audience know it by now. Is there a quote or a maxim that you lived by?

[00:30:59] Jacob: From a personal and professional experience or from a personal professional life, I think my maxim is like never stop learning. Always be learning. I think, yeah, there’s always room to grow and to improve and the pursuit of knowledge and growth is what helps us to achieve our goals and fulfill our potential.

[00:31:20] Jacob: And yeah, I try also in my personal life to embody that mindset. By writing down like the challenge I faced some time ago and then reflecting on how I would approach the problem differently with the new knowledge I gained, so this is something what I actively do and I think it translates perfectly also to Consola right now.

[00:31:40] Jacob: This is what I also live, and yeah, I would sum up this is the maximum I live to.

[00:31:46] Umar: Yeah, I love it. And I completely agree. Whenever we stop learning, we stop growing, and speaking for myself. If I know I’m not reading, that’s when I start to feel less creative. So if I’m not feeling very creative, I’ll just pick up a book and read and ideas will start flowing again.

[00:32:02] Umar: Jacob, thanks a lot for your time today. Thanks for coming in. It’s a very important topic to keep speaking about web3 Bookkeeping. This podcast is about web3 accounting, bookkeeping, and it’s a recurrent theme on this podcast, and I’m so delighted to have someone like you building a product on web3 bookkeeping and to facilitate financial reporting for crypto and coming on this show too tell us more about it. I will just say one more thing.

[00:32:29] Umar: So before we go, could you share with the listeners, you already shared your personal email address, but if they want to learn more about Consola today, how should they do so?

[00:32:41] Jacob: Yeah, for sure. So you can directly, as mentioned, create an account on app.consola.finance.

[00:32:47] Jacob: We also are active on Twitter, so it’s consolafinance in one word. You can also join our Discord server. I think the best way to find all the different channels is you just go to www.consola.finance and all our channels are linked and I’m very happy to get to know you. So also book a session directly via Calendly link that I will share after you reach out.

[00:33:13] Jacob: So thanks a lot. It was great. Talk to you guys. And Umar, thanks a lot for the invitation. It was great to meet you.

[00:33:19] Umar: Thanks a lot, Jacob. We’ll speak soon.

[00:33:21] Umar: I would like to thank everyone for listening to this episode. You’ll find all the links of the episode, show notes and transcript on the website of The Accountant Quits at theaccountantquits.com.

[00:33:33] Umar: Please note that this content is for general information purposes only and is not a substitute for consultation with professional advisors. If you do know anyone who could benefit from the episode and you care about them, please do share the episode with them. All the episodes are available on Spotify, Apple Podcasts and Google Podcasts, and by leaving us a review and rating, you will support the channel and all your fellow accountants.

[00:34:02] Umar: In order to be notified each time we release a new episode, do follow us on Instagram and LinkedIn. We hope to have you with us next time. Bye for now.